Today’s Vergecast: How Steve Jobs became Steve Jobs.

Long before Steve Jobs was the unstoppable force of nature atop Apple, shipping hit product after hit product, he was practically run out of the company after a series of bad product and management decisions. But as Geoffrey Cain argues in his new book, Steve Jobs in Exile: The Untold Story of NeXT and the Remaking of an American Visionary, the 12 years Jobs spent outside of Apple turned him into the leader the world came to know. Cain joins the show to talk about Jobs’ experiences at NeXT and Pixar, how Jobs learned to be a successful leader, and the true power — and danger — of the reality distortion field. Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed. Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed. Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed. Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed. Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed. A free daily digest of the news that matters most. The Verge is a part of PMX Global, LLC, a subsidiary of Penske Media Corporation. © 2026 VM Publ